“It’s not about discrimination, but “men and women are designed differently.” It’s not prejudiced to acknowledge “biological and social reality.” It’s not just a “social construct.” It’s about protecting the children.”
What the **** does any of that have to do with same sex vs mixed sex marriage? Not a thing. The Republican Party is now a straightforward cult, and dogma trumps reason and compassion for them.
Faith-based religion/politics makes otherwise sane, thoughtful people do irrational, hurtful things. We must, somehow, instill a desire for reason and compassion in all relationships and endeavors, and humility and willingness to admit ignorance.
My older generation may be largely lost to rigid stubbornness, but there’s hope because the future belongs to the young, and the young are more open minded and may yet be persuaded. We must hope so, assume so, and advocate loudly and proudly.
FYI: I am the cis/hetero GF with LGBTQ family and friends. We all have a role to play and now is the time.
Agree Frank! The scary thing is that younger folks are being indoctrinated by the right on social media platforms and podcasts. They are so susceptible to this messaging with algorithms and limited knowledge/experiences to question what they see. Everything is a headline.
And the statement the Republicans love to use, "protecting the children." That is complete BS when you look at their other views on guns and vaccines. It really is disgusting.
"... designed differently ..." - that part of the sentence alone implies a number of claims that can't be supported and fly in the face of actual evidence, to wit: there is no evidence humans are designed, we have evolved. Also all humans start off as a single embryo which develops in an identical way for the first few weeks and only then do *some* cells start to produce any sex differentiation. EVERY human contains the genetic material for making ALL parts (irrespective of gender), the only difference is which signals get switched on/off.
Quite honestly I'd actually love it if this fucking morons WOULD acknowledge biological and social reality, they demonstrably don't do that! Instead they stick to some bigoted garbage in their heads based on out-dated beliefs and make up some ridiculous fairy-tale idea of how the world supposedly works but which doesn't actually match with reality.
"Protecting children" - yeah right, you fucking arrogant misogynistic arsehole. My child is WAY better protected from having two mums than a great many children in conventional family setups which expose them to abuse from family, friends and/or their local pastor/politician.
FFS, marriage gets you some legal protections, that's it. Sure there is a spiritual aspect for some people which isn't anything to do with government. There is no problem allowing consenting and informed adults from having a legal marriage regardless of gender. Why are morons/bigots still wasting huge amounts of time fighting against this? It's none of their business, they can fuck off
The GOP/Republicans, evangelicals, bigots, religious zealots are all just part of a cult of stupidity. It's a wide club to include all those that are hard-of-thinking. The human race is being held back by people who lack, for whatever reason, the capacity to understand or deal with the real world in all it's diverse and splendid complexity.
I maintain that, if alien life does exist outside of the plater Earth, and has been able to visit us, they have likely flown away as fast as they can lest they catch whatever stupid bug seems to infect so many of this species.
I'm California we passed Proposition 3 which enshrined same sex marriage in the state constitution. My wife and I got married in Vegas so it's nice to know that if Obergfell goes away, we can get married again.
No. The legality of any particular marriage would then be based on the laws of the state in which it was established. For those who live in a state like Montana that still has laws on their books making same sex marriage illegal, those marriages would no longer be legally recognized.
The federal Respect for Marriage Act (2022) requires the federal government and all states to recognized same sex marriages established in another state, so if Obergfell was overturned, a Montana couple (for example), could get married in California and Montana would have to recognized it.
What I don't know and would wonder about is the implications of the gap between a hypothetical dissolution and remarriage as it relates to tax filings, especially with the Trump admin. For anyone not married and seeking to do so, if it were me, I'd consider doing an out-of-state marriage in a state like California where marriages are protected independent of Obergell.
Overturning Obergefell would definitely cause confusion & chaos, which this administration seems to enjoy. 😡
That said, my wife & I were married in Vegas in 2001 when she was still legally male. We have lived in California since 2002 & she has been legally female since 2016. (She’s also a Canadian citizen with passport & amended birth cert saying she is female. Her green card still has her old name & sex. We applied for name & sex change in November & that is still in process, but who knows how that will shake out.)
I’m not sure how that combination of things would be affected by the fall of Obergefell.
Congratulations on your marriage. Your son is truly blessed. I hope Representative Zephyr will try again next session to get her bill passed. It is past time for Love to be recognized in all it's forms and allowed to be formalized in marriage by consenting adults, without prejudice. We stand with you.
Eventually if we allow this to continue, the Republican cult will come after everyone who is not hetero, white, Christian nationalist because they fear everyone who is different, they are militantly ignorant and don't want to cede anything that threatens their control, power and money. Trump has made bias, animus and cruelty permissible when previously these people generally wouldn't crawl out from under their rocks. The US Constitution was partly designed to protect minorities from the tyranny of the majority and some of the courts do honor this.
Because of course marriage is a biological function even though the only species that does marriage is homo sapiens. Curiously I've never heard about any evidence anyone was "putting a ring on it" in sites associated with the migrations from Africa.
That said, I suppose thinking marriage is biological isn’t too big a leap if you think God created the world in seven days a few thousand years ago. You need quite a “distinctive” understanding of biology to begin with to do that after all.
In 2008 California passed Prop 8 banning gay marriage. (Side note: a lot of California's believe it passed because it was unclear as to whether a 'no' vote meant you were voting for or against the amendment.) In 2009, in a case challenging the Prop 8 ban, the California Supreme Court ruled that California had no rational basis for denying marriage licenses to same-sex couples, thereby overturning Prop 8.
The Prop 8 argument in that court case was essentially "gay marriage is bad for children". (I'm guessing because the pearl-clutching argument of "it's icky and violates my religious beliefs" wasn't going to win any court cases.) What the case ended up proving is that same-sex marriage is a recipe for extremely well-adjusted children. In addition to married parents contributing to feelings of stability in children, there's something about children being wanted and planned (a necessity for many LGBTQ couples) that makes for happy households.
All these states want to keep discrimination enshrined in their laws just in case the Supreme Court ever rules their way. Here in Tennessee, they refuse to remove the requirement that an atheist cannot hold office. Yes, it is unconstitutional, but they don't care because one day, they may be able to enforce it again.
Yep, it's the same playbooks as abortion. I live in Wisconsin and we've got a 1848 abortion law on the books with no exceptions for basically anything. It snapped back into effect the moment Roe was overturned.
Fortunately our Supreme court turned liberal a few years later and declare the law unconstitutional, but we can't get the damn thing off the books because our legislature is GOP controlled.
It is a basic human right to form loving, meaningful relationships on one’s own terms. All of society is harmed by these laws trying to deny people same-sex marriage. If folks legally have no choice in the matter but to enter cishet-presenting marriages then even those cisgender straight and bi+ folks in different-gender relationships are not truly free because that’s the only relationship format in which they can legally marry. Marriage should be a totally open choice — something everyone can decide to enter into with whomever they love and want to marry. Love is the most powerful force in the universe and WILL prevail, even in the face of these bigoted actions and laws.
May all the "drop the T" idiots take note!
Imposing their religious beliefs on everyone else. Bigotry at its finest. /s
Pretty sure there's nothing "biological" about two people signing a contract so they can share and improve their financial assets
“It’s not about discrimination, but “men and women are designed differently.” It’s not prejudiced to acknowledge “biological and social reality.” It’s not just a “social construct.” It’s about protecting the children.”
What the **** does any of that have to do with same sex vs mixed sex marriage? Not a thing. The Republican Party is now a straightforward cult, and dogma trumps reason and compassion for them.
Faith-based religion/politics makes otherwise sane, thoughtful people do irrational, hurtful things. We must, somehow, instill a desire for reason and compassion in all relationships and endeavors, and humility and willingness to admit ignorance.
My older generation may be largely lost to rigid stubbornness, but there’s hope because the future belongs to the young, and the young are more open minded and may yet be persuaded. We must hope so, assume so, and advocate loudly and proudly.
FYI: I am the cis/hetero GF with LGBTQ family and friends. We all have a role to play and now is the time.
Agree Frank! The scary thing is that younger folks are being indoctrinated by the right on social media platforms and podcasts. They are so susceptible to this messaging with algorithms and limited knowledge/experiences to question what they see. Everything is a headline.
And the statement the Republicans love to use, "protecting the children." That is complete BS when you look at their other views on guns and vaccines. It really is disgusting.
"... designed differently ..." - that part of the sentence alone implies a number of claims that can't be supported and fly in the face of actual evidence, to wit: there is no evidence humans are designed, we have evolved. Also all humans start off as a single embryo which develops in an identical way for the first few weeks and only then do *some* cells start to produce any sex differentiation. EVERY human contains the genetic material for making ALL parts (irrespective of gender), the only difference is which signals get switched on/off.
Quite honestly I'd actually love it if this fucking morons WOULD acknowledge biological and social reality, they demonstrably don't do that! Instead they stick to some bigoted garbage in their heads based on out-dated beliefs and make up some ridiculous fairy-tale idea of how the world supposedly works but which doesn't actually match with reality.
"Protecting children" - yeah right, you fucking arrogant misogynistic arsehole. My child is WAY better protected from having two mums than a great many children in conventional family setups which expose them to abuse from family, friends and/or their local pastor/politician.
FFS, marriage gets you some legal protections, that's it. Sure there is a spiritual aspect for some people which isn't anything to do with government. There is no problem allowing consenting and informed adults from having a legal marriage regardless of gender. Why are morons/bigots still wasting huge amounts of time fighting against this? It's none of their business, they can fuck off
She is so brave for doing this work in Montana. Hats off to your both. We will lose many battles before we win this war
SO, SO BRAVE. Thank you both for all the work you do for LGBTQ folks, families and allies!
The GOP/Republicans, evangelicals, bigots, religious zealots are all just part of a cult of stupidity. It's a wide club to include all those that are hard-of-thinking. The human race is being held back by people who lack, for whatever reason, the capacity to understand or deal with the real world in all it's diverse and splendid complexity.
I maintain that, if alien life does exist outside of the plater Earth, and has been able to visit us, they have likely flown away as fast as they can lest they catch whatever stupid bug seems to infect so many of this species.
FFS what is wrong with these people?
There's no limit to how far these reactionary shitheads will turn the clock back if they get the chance.
I'm California we passed Proposition 3 which enshrined same sex marriage in the state constitution. My wife and I got married in Vegas so it's nice to know that if Obergfell goes away, we can get married again.
Would overturning Obergefell dissolve existing marriages?
Asking for myself, actually.
No. The legality of any particular marriage would then be based on the laws of the state in which it was established. For those who live in a state like Montana that still has laws on their books making same sex marriage illegal, those marriages would no longer be legally recognized.
The federal Respect for Marriage Act (2022) requires the federal government and all states to recognized same sex marriages established in another state, so if Obergfell was overturned, a Montana couple (for example), could get married in California and Montana would have to recognized it.
What I don't know and would wonder about is the implications of the gap between a hypothetical dissolution and remarriage as it relates to tax filings, especially with the Trump admin. For anyone not married and seeking to do so, if it were me, I'd consider doing an out-of-state marriage in a state like California where marriages are protected independent of Obergell.
Overturning Obergefell would definitely cause confusion & chaos, which this administration seems to enjoy. 😡
That said, my wife & I were married in Vegas in 2001 when she was still legally male. We have lived in California since 2002 & she has been legally female since 2016. (She’s also a Canadian citizen with passport & amended birth cert saying she is female. Her green card still has her old name & sex. We applied for name & sex change in November & that is still in process, but who knows how that will shake out.)
I’m not sure how that combination of things would be affected by the fall of Obergefell.
I wish you and your wide the best navigating these challenging times!
With your marriage being established in Las Vegas, it really shouldn't be effected at all if Obergefell was overturned.
Same-sex marriage is protected in Nevada's constitution.
https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/nevada-becomes-first-state-recognize-gay-marriage-state-constitution-n1246607
And the federal Respect for Marriage Act (2022) ensures all states and the federal government have to recognize it.
I honestly don't know. I just assume it would.
Congratulations on your marriage. Your son is truly blessed. I hope Representative Zephyr will try again next session to get her bill passed. It is past time for Love to be recognized in all it's forms and allowed to be formalized in marriage by consenting adults, without prejudice. We stand with you.
Eventually if we allow this to continue, the Republican cult will come after everyone who is not hetero, white, Christian nationalist because they fear everyone who is different, they are militantly ignorant and don't want to cede anything that threatens their control, power and money. Trump has made bias, animus and cruelty permissible when previously these people generally wouldn't crawl out from under their rocks. The US Constitution was partly designed to protect minorities from the tyranny of the majority and some of the courts do honor this.
Because of course marriage is a biological function even though the only species that does marriage is homo sapiens. Curiously I've never heard about any evidence anyone was "putting a ring on it" in sites associated with the migrations from Africa.
That said, I suppose thinking marriage is biological isn’t too big a leap if you think God created the world in seven days a few thousand years ago. You need quite a “distinctive” understanding of biology to begin with to do that after all.
A wonderful speech. So shameful that it didn't pass.
In 2008 California passed Prop 8 banning gay marriage. (Side note: a lot of California's believe it passed because it was unclear as to whether a 'no' vote meant you were voting for or against the amendment.) In 2009, in a case challenging the Prop 8 ban, the California Supreme Court ruled that California had no rational basis for denying marriage licenses to same-sex couples, thereby overturning Prop 8.
The Prop 8 argument in that court case was essentially "gay marriage is bad for children". (I'm guessing because the pearl-clutching argument of "it's icky and violates my religious beliefs" wasn't going to win any court cases.) What the case ended up proving is that same-sex marriage is a recipe for extremely well-adjusted children. In addition to married parents contributing to feelings of stability in children, there's something about children being wanted and planned (a necessity for many LGBTQ couples) that makes for happy households.
And we recently passed a proposition repealing Prop 8, just in case Obergefell is overturned.
All these states want to keep discrimination enshrined in their laws just in case the Supreme Court ever rules their way. Here in Tennessee, they refuse to remove the requirement that an atheist cannot hold office. Yes, it is unconstitutional, but they don't care because one day, they may be able to enforce it again.
Yep, it's the same playbooks as abortion. I live in Wisconsin and we've got a 1848 abortion law on the books with no exceptions for basically anything. It snapped back into effect the moment Roe was overturned.
Fortunately our Supreme court turned liberal a few years later and declare the law unconstitutional, but we can't get the damn thing off the books because our legislature is GOP controlled.
It is a basic human right to form loving, meaningful relationships on one’s own terms. All of society is harmed by these laws trying to deny people same-sex marriage. If folks legally have no choice in the matter but to enter cishet-presenting marriages then even those cisgender straight and bi+ folks in different-gender relationships are not truly free because that’s the only relationship format in which they can legally marry. Marriage should be a totally open choice — something everyone can decide to enter into with whomever they love and want to marry. Love is the most powerful force in the universe and WILL prevail, even in the face of these bigoted actions and laws.