In a Sex Matters event in the Manchester, England, "Gender Critical" activists espoused gendered dress codes. The same is being pushed by US conservatives. Here's how these policies affect us all.
I am old enough to remember (the 60s) when my Midwest school forced girls to wear either dresses or skirts. Even in freezing weather, we were not allowed to wear pants, but eventually, due to pressure from the moms, they let us wear pants underneath that had to be taken off once we were in the school bldg. It was absolutely ridiculous then, and it's even more ridiculous now. I will never give in to these conservative fascists. I'll wear what I please and encourage others to do so. I will not go back!
I think any time someone proclaims something about "biological" clothing, or a "biological male" invading womens' spaces, etc. they should be grilled on what exactly they mean by "biological". Do they mean which letters 2 of their chromosomes spell out? Which sex-related genes are switched on? Whether the person can get pregnant or impregnate someone? Whether the person has a vagina or a penis (regardless of whether they're fertile or not)? Whether the person's cells have been existing in an estrogen-dominant hormone environment or a testosterone-dominant one, and if so, for how long?
Everyone has a different intuitive sense of what "biological" likely means in these laws, but calling them on that would be really fun to watch as everyone defines the term differently in their own minds.
What happened to 'freedom'!? Does anyone actually care what other people wear!? Just talk about someone else's bad fashion choices behind their backs like the gods intended and move on! Ahhhh!
And, when a person AFAB lives with micromastia after puberty, will biological standards punish them for not wearing a bra? When an intersex teenager AFAB goes through puberty more typically associated with AMAB kids, develops a full beard and self-identifies as male, are they still confined to girls' restrooms and sports, based on the birth certificate?
Will boys' and girls' PE changing spaces also be inspecting grounds to ensure that small silky garments and bulkier cotton boxer briefs appear in the biologically appropriate rooms?
Hair is a key component of gender-based dress codes. An Black teen is being suspended by his school for wearing locs tightly bound to his scalp, against the policy that guys' hair length must be judged by it being unfurled. But, how far is that from forcing girls living with alopecia, chemotherapy or a freely chosen crew cut to wear flowing wigs?
That's just what I was thinking. Maybe a T sewn on to our clothes? Then the "police" will be able to identify us as watch us so we don't do anything illegal.
I admit that my personal interest in trans women has been a big factor in my interest in the political issue - but that's a happy coincidence, because I'd have to be kidding myself not to see the danger, today, with the anti-trans stuff, it's the beginning of the end of "freedom", if we ever had it. What we are seeing with this struggle truly is about the whole of the LGBTQ community, and ultimately any person who wants an egalitarian society. They've put the target on trans people (conveniently, because of their small numbers and vulnerability - it's such cowardice, what they're trying to do, but I digress), so I'm jumping in between, as it were.
It never ceases to amaze me the lengths these anti-trans people will go to take away rights, oppress and discriminate not only trans people but anyone else to accomplish their goals. Their wish to get rid of rights to wear what people want is a both a wish to return to mid 20th century and authoritarian control reminiscent of the fascism of the 30's where uniforms were de rigor so people could identify who was ok and who was not. It seems to me this is based on their fear and wish to infect everyone else with it. Gilead comes to mind as well.
This is the most un-American shit ever. The ex-party of small government getting increasingly litigious on what citizens are allowed to wear. I'm as far on the "female" side of the spectrum as one can conceivably get and if they come for my yoga pants I will react not dissimilarly to a lead-poisoned 2nd amendment lunatic!
This fake feminism is just so unbelievably wrong-headed and I can see how it's effective but my gods is it self defeating. I'm increasingly convinced that one of the biggest reasons they hate trans people so much specifically is because in a truly equal society, why would transitioning be a problem? Cis women and LGBTQ+ people are natural allies, but the fascists sure are freaking sneaky.
Apologies, hit a nerve. (Literally, my yoga pants make it a ton easier to walk with my arthritis.)
Quite a few prominent trans-hating activists would struggle to meet the ‘biological clothing’ requirement. They would also claim an opt-out from the trad wife crank views. Except they can’t - authoritarianism, bigotry and sex & gender conformity is all part of their schtick.
The problem is those schools that ONLY single out Joe wanting to be called Joely for notifications.... but Robert wanting to be called Bob is fine without notification. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander.
Maybe CIS-folks NEED to feel the hurt too w/dress codes etc in order to feel the pain. So let’s get ALL people pissed about this.
I apologize in advance for the crudeness of what I'm about to say, but JFC those two women, leading this seminar, might be cisgender, but they must be jealous of the genuine beauty of trans women, the beauty coming from inside one's being. It's not the suit, it's how one wears it - these ladies' bodies are perfectly fine, but can you imagine being intimate with them, the people inside those frames? Eek. TERFs are un-sexy.
I'm pan and when it comes to attraction I have a whole different set of criteria that really doesn't have anything to do with 'biological gender' (it gets me in trouble sometimes, I've had to learn how gender matters). It's fundamentally unattractive to be a self-righteous, judgemental idiot.
You said it best. I find a unique attraction to trans women, in myself, and yet even a cis man, who had the right personality, might conceivably be a partner for me, I'm more hetero but there are some people who are just that appealing. So who could say for sure.
Along these guidelines the child wearing a siblings hand me down jacket that’s *gasp* pink when a boy wears it. The family had to repurpose or maybe that jacket was in the wash but now schools want to make that an issue. It’s an inexcusable yet laughable leap backwards for woman’s rights. Sorry ladies, we better wear only skirts for life, then by comparison men can never wear speedo’s because it resembles bikini bottoms? Sunglasses are obviously illegal because GOD forbid gender neutral, better start analyzing the color wheel in the pink/blue hard lined realm of conservative lunacy.... Like wtf
This shit is frightening. Even before my nonbinary egg cracked, I rarely wore skirts or dresses, and in the last few months before the pandemic lockdown I exclusively wore trousers, button down shirts, and oxford shoes to the office. I'm not entirely sure that some of these cisgender women pushing for these policies know that they will be subject to them as well. It wasn't that long ago that cisgender girls were barred from wearing trousers in school in the US; my mother graduated from high school in 1969 and wasn't allowed to wear trousers, and that was a county school system policy at the time. The concept of "biological" clothing is a fucking farce anyway. Clothing changes with time and fashion trends. Some clothing in other cultures would be seen as gender bending in countries where clothing is based off of Western European culture. But of course, as much as this is a "gender" issue, it's also a white supremacist issue, as the goal of white supremacists is to eradicate and suppress all other cultures that don't conform to their narrow and bigoted views. Hand in hand with white supremacy is queer/transphobia, and any expression of gender and sexual preference that falls outside of their accepted norms is violently squashed. And the cisgender (white) women promoting this shit are in for a rude awakening when they become the next group to have their rights forcibly removed.
The "Sex Matters" meeting, incidentally, was protested by a large coalition of trans and disabled activists who far outnumbered the TERFs. As they were meeting we chalked radical graffiti in support of trans rights on the flagstones in front of the museum; if you'd like pictures of that to add to the article, Erin, I can provide some. The opposition to the TERFs as they came out of the museum was an inspiring display of community solidarity.
Good. Thank for you sharing your experience of the event. I can understand cis women's qualms to an extent, but at some point, you would think they would begin to come to understand trans women as women, and not reach the point of having this seminar. Somewhere along the line, it becomes tantamount to willful ignorance, basically, I don't want to believe they would deliberately discriminate against someone, but their actions say that they are doing that.
These are full-blown fascists who are very clear about wanting to eradicate trans people. They went past the "willful ignorance" line a long, long time ago.
Well, that didn't take long. These folks have clearly rammed their agenda through, totally against the preponderance of evidence. I hope someone in the UK government will stand up, and tell them that they're trying to create a top-down structure that discriminates arbitrarily, and it's unacceptable in a modern society.
I'm just going to mute this thread because you're too painfully naive. The UK government is not on our side. We will have to topple that government and then the one after it, before we get so much as a nice platitude for trans rights from government.
I will have to look more deeply into them, I want to at least attempt to understand their mindset, as much as I already know it's wrong, I want to know how they failed to perceive the reality of this, despite all the evidence.
I am not a violent person, that said, my immediate thought was "let them try to put me in a dress". I had to go to church as a child and was told I had to wear a dress there and I hated it, but I did not dare tell my mom that. Now that I am an adult, I never wear dresses, not that I feel more masculine in pants, just that I feel very uncomfortable wearing dresses and skirts.
Right, Lord forbid people wear clothes that are comfortable, and fashionable to their own tastes. This shit is even worse than the BS, about how some women dress provocatively, at least in that case there is *some* basis, to the misogynist thought, in this case it's more along the lines of the Taliban, or something, you naughty person possessing that nice ass, you better be modest! Just kooky stuff, really, people need to get with the times.
I am old enough to remember (the 60s) when my Midwest school forced girls to wear either dresses or skirts. Even in freezing weather, we were not allowed to wear pants, but eventually, due to pressure from the moms, they let us wear pants underneath that had to be taken off once we were in the school bldg. It was absolutely ridiculous then, and it's even more ridiculous now. I will never give in to these conservative fascists. I'll wear what I please and encourage others to do so. I will not go back!
I think any time someone proclaims something about "biological" clothing, or a "biological male" invading womens' spaces, etc. they should be grilled on what exactly they mean by "biological". Do they mean which letters 2 of their chromosomes spell out? Which sex-related genes are switched on? Whether the person can get pregnant or impregnate someone? Whether the person has a vagina or a penis (regardless of whether they're fertile or not)? Whether the person's cells have been existing in an estrogen-dominant hormone environment or a testosterone-dominant one, and if so, for how long?
Everyone has a different intuitive sense of what "biological" likely means in these laws, but calling them on that would be really fun to watch as everyone defines the term differently in their own minds.
What happened to 'freedom'!? Does anyone actually care what other people wear!? Just talk about someone else's bad fashion choices behind their backs like the gods intended and move on! Ahhhh!
And, when a person AFAB lives with micromastia after puberty, will biological standards punish them for not wearing a bra? When an intersex teenager AFAB goes through puberty more typically associated with AMAB kids, develops a full beard and self-identifies as male, are they still confined to girls' restrooms and sports, based on the birth certificate?
Will boys' and girls' PE changing spaces also be inspecting grounds to ensure that small silky garments and bulkier cotton boxer briefs appear in the biologically appropriate rooms?
Hair is a key component of gender-based dress codes. An Black teen is being suspended by his school for wearing locs tightly bound to his scalp, against the policy that guys' hair length must be judged by it being unfurled. But, how far is that from forcing girls living with alopecia, chemotherapy or a freely chosen crew cut to wear flowing wigs?
Why don't they just go ahead and have us all sew patches with symbols onto our existing clothing? Imagine how much cheaper that would be -_-
That's just what I was thinking. Maybe a T sewn on to our clothes? Then the "police" will be able to identify us as watch us so we don't do anything illegal.
I admit that my personal interest in trans women has been a big factor in my interest in the political issue - but that's a happy coincidence, because I'd have to be kidding myself not to see the danger, today, with the anti-trans stuff, it's the beginning of the end of "freedom", if we ever had it. What we are seeing with this struggle truly is about the whole of the LGBTQ community, and ultimately any person who wants an egalitarian society. They've put the target on trans people (conveniently, because of their small numbers and vulnerability - it's such cowardice, what they're trying to do, but I digress), so I'm jumping in between, as it were.
"rising visibility of transgender people"
Our visibility is only rising because these bigots keep putting us under a microscope. They could, idk, leave us alone maybe
I love wearing my biological polyester blend tanktop! Very biological! 🥲😭
It never ceases to amaze me the lengths these anti-trans people will go to take away rights, oppress and discriminate not only trans people but anyone else to accomplish their goals. Their wish to get rid of rights to wear what people want is a both a wish to return to mid 20th century and authoritarian control reminiscent of the fascism of the 30's where uniforms were de rigor so people could identify who was ok and who was not. It seems to me this is based on their fear and wish to infect everyone else with it. Gilead comes to mind as well.
This is the most un-American shit ever. The ex-party of small government getting increasingly litigious on what citizens are allowed to wear. I'm as far on the "female" side of the spectrum as one can conceivably get and if they come for my yoga pants I will react not dissimilarly to a lead-poisoned 2nd amendment lunatic!
This fake feminism is just so unbelievably wrong-headed and I can see how it's effective but my gods is it self defeating. I'm increasingly convinced that one of the biggest reasons they hate trans people so much specifically is because in a truly equal society, why would transitioning be a problem? Cis women and LGBTQ+ people are natural allies, but the fascists sure are freaking sneaky.
Apologies, hit a nerve. (Literally, my yoga pants make it a ton easier to walk with my arthritis.)
They sound like unamerican anti-freedom types
Quite a few prominent trans-hating activists would struggle to meet the ‘biological clothing’ requirement. They would also claim an opt-out from the trad wife crank views. Except they can’t - authoritarianism, bigotry and sex & gender conformity is all part of their schtick.
The problem is those schools that ONLY single out Joe wanting to be called Joely for notifications.... but Robert wanting to be called Bob is fine without notification. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander.
Maybe CIS-folks NEED to feel the hurt too w/dress codes etc in order to feel the pain. So let’s get ALL people pissed about this.
I apologize in advance for the crudeness of what I'm about to say, but JFC those two women, leading this seminar, might be cisgender, but they must be jealous of the genuine beauty of trans women, the beauty coming from inside one's being. It's not the suit, it's how one wears it - these ladies' bodies are perfectly fine, but can you imagine being intimate with them, the people inside those frames? Eek. TERFs are un-sexy.
I'm pan and when it comes to attraction I have a whole different set of criteria that really doesn't have anything to do with 'biological gender' (it gets me in trouble sometimes, I've had to learn how gender matters). It's fundamentally unattractive to be a self-righteous, judgemental idiot.
You said it best. I find a unique attraction to trans women, in myself, and yet even a cis man, who had the right personality, might conceivably be a partner for me, I'm more hetero but there are some people who are just that appealing. So who could say for sure.
The U.K. continues to be the U.S. test lab for new, awful ways to attack and demean trans people.
Looks like two trolls have escaped from Hogwarts.
LOL, yeah such pleasant folks, huh. And they feel so justified in their antiquated views.
Along these guidelines the child wearing a siblings hand me down jacket that’s *gasp* pink when a boy wears it. The family had to repurpose or maybe that jacket was in the wash but now schools want to make that an issue. It’s an inexcusable yet laughable leap backwards for woman’s rights. Sorry ladies, we better wear only skirts for life, then by comparison men can never wear speedo’s because it resembles bikini bottoms? Sunglasses are obviously illegal because GOD forbid gender neutral, better start analyzing the color wheel in the pink/blue hard lined realm of conservative lunacy.... Like wtf
This shit is frightening. Even before my nonbinary egg cracked, I rarely wore skirts or dresses, and in the last few months before the pandemic lockdown I exclusively wore trousers, button down shirts, and oxford shoes to the office. I'm not entirely sure that some of these cisgender women pushing for these policies know that they will be subject to them as well. It wasn't that long ago that cisgender girls were barred from wearing trousers in school in the US; my mother graduated from high school in 1969 and wasn't allowed to wear trousers, and that was a county school system policy at the time. The concept of "biological" clothing is a fucking farce anyway. Clothing changes with time and fashion trends. Some clothing in other cultures would be seen as gender bending in countries where clothing is based off of Western European culture. But of course, as much as this is a "gender" issue, it's also a white supremacist issue, as the goal of white supremacists is to eradicate and suppress all other cultures that don't conform to their narrow and bigoted views. Hand in hand with white supremacy is queer/transphobia, and any expression of gender and sexual preference that falls outside of their accepted norms is violently squashed. And the cisgender (white) women promoting this shit are in for a rude awakening when they become the next group to have their rights forcibly removed.
The "Sex Matters" meeting, incidentally, was protested by a large coalition of trans and disabled activists who far outnumbered the TERFs. As they were meeting we chalked radical graffiti in support of trans rights on the flagstones in front of the museum; if you'd like pictures of that to add to the article, Erin, I can provide some. The opposition to the TERFs as they came out of the museum was an inspiring display of community solidarity.
Good. Thank for you sharing your experience of the event. I can understand cis women's qualms to an extent, but at some point, you would think they would begin to come to understand trans women as women, and not reach the point of having this seminar. Somewhere along the line, it becomes tantamount to willful ignorance, basically, I don't want to believe they would deliberately discriminate against someone, but their actions say that they are doing that.
These are full-blown fascists who are very clear about wanting to eradicate trans people. They went past the "willful ignorance" line a long, long time ago.
Well, that didn't take long. These folks have clearly rammed their agenda through, totally against the preponderance of evidence. I hope someone in the UK government will stand up, and tell them that they're trying to create a top-down structure that discriminates arbitrarily, and it's unacceptable in a modern society.
I'm just going to mute this thread because you're too painfully naive. The UK government is not on our side. We will have to topple that government and then the one after it, before we get so much as a nice platitude for trans rights from government.
I will have to look more deeply into them, I want to at least attempt to understand their mindset, as much as I already know it's wrong, I want to know how they failed to perceive the reality of this, despite all the evidence.
I am not a violent person, that said, my immediate thought was "let them try to put me in a dress". I had to go to church as a child and was told I had to wear a dress there and I hated it, but I did not dare tell my mom that. Now that I am an adult, I never wear dresses, not that I feel more masculine in pants, just that I feel very uncomfortable wearing dresses and skirts.
Right, Lord forbid people wear clothes that are comfortable, and fashionable to their own tastes. This shit is even worse than the BS, about how some women dress provocatively, at least in that case there is *some* basis, to the misogynist thought, in this case it's more along the lines of the Taliban, or something, you naughty person possessing that nice ass, you better be modest! Just kooky stuff, really, people need to get with the times.