On Friday Night, the New York Times reported that the Biden Administration opposes trans surgeries under age 18, raising alarm within the trans community. We deserve clarity and disciplined responses.
I'm sick of the huge double standard when it comes to transgender people. "According to the American Society of Plastic and Reconstructive Surgeons (ASPS), in 2020, nearly 230,000 cosmetic surgeries and nearly 140,000 non-invasive cosmetic procedures were performed on teens ages 13-19. Some of the most common types of plastic surgery teens choose include nose jobs and correction of protruding ears, too-large breasts, asymmetrical breasts, and scarring caused by acne or injuries. A lot of procedures go unreported, though, including those performed in dermatology offices and spas."
I noticed the same double standard regarding sports - millions of injuries a year (many quite severe) are tolerable, unless a transgender girl is involved grrr. We are dealing with this in our county right now - our County Exec just passed a law barring teams that include transgender girls from playing at any county facilities. They were obsessed with "safety" and "fairness" so this double standard has been on my mind.
So, *we* (trans people, allies, experts, decent human beings, etc) know that trans healthcare is necessary and lifesaving. There are individual cases that may warrant surgery for minors but, at the very least, social transition, puberty blockers, possibly hormones (again specific cases), and supporting medication (possibly for depression etc), should be available.
Equally, recognition of identities, support in school, community, and home are all vital and essentially can be lifesaving. This would include access to space, sport, etc.
The above is all supported by scientific evidence and by the experts in the field.
If you ban/limit any of the above you are deliberately and knowingly discriminating and inflicting harm. I don’t believe that is supported by the US constitution nor world wide human rights laws.
It seems to me the argument against all of this is that it’s all “gender ideology” and conflicts with others beliefs and therefore is fair game.
I’d like to take this to a logical conclusion: Let’s say “gender ideology” is a thing and essentially a belief system of those that support it. That surely would then count as a faith/religion would it not? It has way more evidence for it than many (all) other belief systems so surely it could be treated as such.
If we consider this now in the frame of freedom of religion we are now smack bang on the middle of constitutional arguments that the bigots have used: they feel they can believe what they like and not care about anyone else’s opinion. Surely the same is true. You therefore can’t make laws limiting people’s “religious” freedoms so trans bans are null and void.
Obviously bigots don’t think logically so the above argument won’t work on them. However, it’s yet more evidence of how ludicrous and irrational their position is.
Either way, belief, or fact, the bigots are actually, demonstrably in the wrong.
Though we didn’t need my ramblings to show that, we already know that
Reading Butler's "Who's Afraid of Gender?" and your comment hits on the truth: that "gender ideology" has become such a bogeyman that evangelicals and catholics view it as a challenge to their dogma, that they assume it's pushed on youth just like their own views are pushed on their youth, and that's terrifying to them.
Yes, there's more evidence supporting the existence of trans people than there is to support the existence of any and all deities including the Xtian's "God".
The Bible is not evidence nor can it be proven even factual. The beliefs of millions of people in the absence of any scientific proof is meaningless.
I agree we need clarity and good responses, but in light of recent events, I feel like a discussion about what the Biden administration may or may not have said about under-18s surgery is a distraction, and is losing the forest for the trees at this point. Trans people in the US are in grave danger right now. The chances of a Trump presidency are dramatically higher now with the debate and the chaos in the Democratic Party - and with it, the prospect of Project 2025 which will be devastating. I respectfully suggest that between now and the end of the year, most if not all trans articles should focus on one of two topics: 1) whether deep blue states will or could maintain any protections under a GOP presidency/congress, or could practically resist Project 2025 or be willing/able to do so; 2) safe countries for trans people to seek refuge in - and how to specifically achieve that - if #1 fails. What I’m saying may be controversial for some to hear, but that is the level of danger that I think trans people are facing right now. The situation in red states looks nearly hopeless regardless of election outcome.
Agree with you on this. Hate to go doomer on you all, but the "worst case" scenario really seems to be playing out, and US is not the only country where things are going very bad, very fast. France (even after being occupied by the Nazis in WW2) seems to be voting fascist... some chance of them being stopped in the second round, but who knows for how long. In UK, the Labour opposition will almost certainly get a huge landslide this week, but are already making horribly transphobic noises; and then watch out for replacement of the Tories by a Reform / National Conservative (NatC) alliance.
Within the next few years, we could have every nuclear-armed state on Earth under authoritarian / neofascist governments, all at once. And then it's game over.
The French Liberals have let the conservative Muslim hordes who hate France get away with it as free speech right. That's like we're doing letting Trump say he's going to be a dictator, and the Supreme Court turning the Presidency into a Kingship let it all go by as free speech instead of regarding it as Treason against our Constitutional Democracies.
It's only a matter of time before Biden and Democrat establishment types throw trans folks under the bus in the futile hope of currying favor with bigots. It's shortsighted, stupid and won't work.
No. Not happening. Yes, it's true that Trans Youth Surgeries are a very touchy subject. I had a gay friend 5 or so years ago say, "I didn't know what I wanted to be at that age (teen)." I was incredulous that a gay person denied the freedom for others he wanted for himself especially since gender identity forms earlier than sexual orientation - with some room for differences.
I stopped believing anything the new york times says, many moons ago. They seem to only care about shocking their readers into paying attention to them. Sound familiar?
You write, “…a trap set by the New York Times, whose coverage of transgender issues has been notably poor… “ which is charitable to the point of being wrong. Its coverage of transgender policy is almost universally slanted, so hard in fact that it sinks to the level of intentional misinformation. And that’s its “news” reporting and not opinion. Several of their columnists, including Pamela Paul, David French and Bret Stevens are pretty much anti-trans activists. The “news” organization is essentially an anti-trans hate group in the guise of a paper of record, which means we have the unenviable task of correcting their misinformation on the regular. Eff the NYT.
I really wish I could be a fly on the wall of whatever editor keeps encouraging such slanted reporting. Because what the hell? The NYT newsroom culture just doesn't like trans people and isn't anywhere near examining that bias.
I'd love to see Biden's team issue a full-throated statement of affirmation and support- but even if we get something rather more disappointing (or nothing at all), it won't change anything for me. I don't foresee any circumstances under which a protest vote this year could be anything but suicidal, considering what the Republicans are already doing at the state level, let alone what they plan to do with the federal government if they get the chance. So... I'll choke down my grievances and vote for the Democratic party's stale loaf of wonderbread, regardless of what kind of clarification he does or doesn't issue.
The only question is how much bourbon I'll need afterwards to get the taste out of my mouth.
This is a decision best made by the patient, the parent and the physician. Hmmm, sound familiar? What is the fascination with Government intruding upon the medical needs of the populace? Unless there's a congressman, Senator, or president with a degree in medicine, then get your big nose out of medicine. You all have proven time and again that you don't know what the f**k you're talking about.
I'm going to say something, up front, that won't be popular: I don't really understand the surgery thing. I don't really see why trans people have to go to that length to be considered legitimately trans (and they don't, of course). But, there are *selected* 16 and 17 year-old individuals who *have* been through the process, sufficiently, to have the surgery, just as they would be at 18 or older. It's wrong to deny them that, just as it's wrong to make the age of consent 18 for sexual activity with adults. It's not that we're recommending every 16 year old have sex with an older person, or cut their dick off, but that they have rights, they are individuals with the conscious level to make decisions. It's wrong to tell them they don't count as adults *in specific circumstances*.
Every trans person's journey can be different. It may take surgeries to eliminate the dysphoria for some and for others merely socially transitioning may be enough to make them happy. Some states have been making proof of surgery a necessity if they are to drive and do other things in their preferred gender. So as a trans person you might not need or want and perhaps you may be a bad candidate for certain surgeries but state governments are forcing us to get surgeries if we desire full and legal acceptance.
This is what I really don't like, when people say they are more accepting of people who cut their dick off, how in the world can they be so insensitive that they'd say something like that? Like a trans woman with a penis is bothering them so she should have a knife taken to it, to make them comfortable? WTF. Trans rights are human rights, and no GAC should be a requirement to qualify. Over my dead body.
I'm trans too and every day I am reminded that my life has been set back by having transitioned so late. I didn't get the support or guidance that I needed at an early enough age. I simply can not see putting another young person through the difficult and unnecessary hurdles that I was forced to endure.
Definitely if Biden is not perfect, I will vote for the guy who will take away ALL our rights and force us all to de-transition.
Or maybe not. Maybe the administration that is doing the most in history for me and my people is due a little understanding and allowance for not being 100% perfect 100% of the time.
We already know the NYT editorial board is 100% fascist MAGAs who are trying to do everything they can to put a pedophile and 34 times convicted felon in the White House. Disregard everything they say. If it doesn't come from the horse's mouth, it comes from the horse's ass.
Got the update email... those cynical fucks did exactly what we were afraid of. They know we have no choice but to vote for their man anyway, with a psychotic Nazi who wants to make our whole existence criminal as an alternative.
Given the debate disaster, and the slant of the Supreme Court in the last week (six of them might as well be wearing MAGA hats) I think we're heading for a Plessy vs Ferguson ruling on trans rights post election. You know, one of those notorious ones that a later court is going to overturn, in shame, but too late for the current generation. Followed by national health care bans, national bathroom bans, national document bans... the full works.
At this point, it may not matter too much what the Biden administration thinks about anything.
Don't forget that there are plenty of under age surgeries going on like breast reduction for girls as young as 12 and thirteen. One of the excuses frequently put fourth is that someone under 18 is too young to consent to a life altering or irreversible procedure. Unless they ban all surgeries the argument against trans surgeries is hypocritical in light of what goes on.
I'm sick of the huge double standard when it comes to transgender people. "According to the American Society of Plastic and Reconstructive Surgeons (ASPS), in 2020, nearly 230,000 cosmetic surgeries and nearly 140,000 non-invasive cosmetic procedures were performed on teens ages 13-19. Some of the most common types of plastic surgery teens choose include nose jobs and correction of protruding ears, too-large breasts, asymmetrical breasts, and scarring caused by acne or injuries. A lot of procedures go unreported, though, including those performed in dermatology offices and spas."
Engaging post...I had not given elective surgeries much thought. Your post has me googling..:)
I noticed the same double standard regarding sports - millions of injuries a year (many quite severe) are tolerable, unless a transgender girl is involved grrr. We are dealing with this in our county right now - our County Exec just passed a law barring teams that include transgender girls from playing at any county facilities. They were obsessed with "safety" and "fairness" so this double standard has been on my mind.
I can't seem to "like" your post, so I'm saying it!
So, *we* (trans people, allies, experts, decent human beings, etc) know that trans healthcare is necessary and lifesaving. There are individual cases that may warrant surgery for minors but, at the very least, social transition, puberty blockers, possibly hormones (again specific cases), and supporting medication (possibly for depression etc), should be available.
Equally, recognition of identities, support in school, community, and home are all vital and essentially can be lifesaving. This would include access to space, sport, etc.
The above is all supported by scientific evidence and by the experts in the field.
If you ban/limit any of the above you are deliberately and knowingly discriminating and inflicting harm. I don’t believe that is supported by the US constitution nor world wide human rights laws.
It seems to me the argument against all of this is that it’s all “gender ideology” and conflicts with others beliefs and therefore is fair game.
I’d like to take this to a logical conclusion: Let’s say “gender ideology” is a thing and essentially a belief system of those that support it. That surely would then count as a faith/religion would it not? It has way more evidence for it than many (all) other belief systems so surely it could be treated as such.
If we consider this now in the frame of freedom of religion we are now smack bang on the middle of constitutional arguments that the bigots have used: they feel they can believe what they like and not care about anyone else’s opinion. Surely the same is true. You therefore can’t make laws limiting people’s “religious” freedoms so trans bans are null and void.
Obviously bigots don’t think logically so the above argument won’t work on them. However, it’s yet more evidence of how ludicrous and irrational their position is.
Either way, belief, or fact, the bigots are actually, demonstrably in the wrong.
Though we didn’t need my ramblings to show that, we already know that
Reading Butler's "Who's Afraid of Gender?" and your comment hits on the truth: that "gender ideology" has become such a bogeyman that evangelicals and catholics view it as a challenge to their dogma, that they assume it's pushed on youth just like their own views are pushed on their youth, and that's terrifying to them.
Yes, there's more evidence supporting the existence of trans people than there is to support the existence of any and all deities including the Xtian's "God".
The Bible is not evidence nor can it be proven even factual. The beliefs of millions of people in the absence of any scientific proof is meaningless.
I agree we need clarity and good responses, but in light of recent events, I feel like a discussion about what the Biden administration may or may not have said about under-18s surgery is a distraction, and is losing the forest for the trees at this point. Trans people in the US are in grave danger right now. The chances of a Trump presidency are dramatically higher now with the debate and the chaos in the Democratic Party - and with it, the prospect of Project 2025 which will be devastating. I respectfully suggest that between now and the end of the year, most if not all trans articles should focus on one of two topics: 1) whether deep blue states will or could maintain any protections under a GOP presidency/congress, or could practically resist Project 2025 or be willing/able to do so; 2) safe countries for trans people to seek refuge in - and how to specifically achieve that - if #1 fails. What I’m saying may be controversial for some to hear, but that is the level of danger that I think trans people are facing right now. The situation in red states looks nearly hopeless regardless of election outcome.
Yes, and I have "inside information" that these sorts of legal issues will take center stage at the trans pride conferences this fall.
Agree with you on this. Hate to go doomer on you all, but the "worst case" scenario really seems to be playing out, and US is not the only country where things are going very bad, very fast. France (even after being occupied by the Nazis in WW2) seems to be voting fascist... some chance of them being stopped in the second round, but who knows for how long. In UK, the Labour opposition will almost certainly get a huge landslide this week, but are already making horribly transphobic noises; and then watch out for replacement of the Tories by a Reform / National Conservative (NatC) alliance.
Within the next few years, we could have every nuclear-armed state on Earth under authoritarian / neofascist governments, all at once. And then it's game over.
The French Liberals have let the conservative Muslim hordes who hate France get away with it as free speech right. That's like we're doing letting Trump say he's going to be a dictator, and the Supreme Court turning the Presidency into a Kingship let it all go by as free speech instead of regarding it as Treason against our Constitutional Democracies.
It's only a matter of time before Biden and Democrat establishment types throw trans folks under the bus in the futile hope of currying favor with bigots. It's shortsighted, stupid and won't work.
No. Not happening. Yes, it's true that Trans Youth Surgeries are a very touchy subject. I had a gay friend 5 or so years ago say, "I didn't know what I wanted to be at that age (teen)." I was incredulous that a gay person denied the freedom for others he wanted for himself especially since gender identity forms earlier than sexual orientation - with some room for differences.
I stopped believing anything the new york times says, many moons ago. They seem to only care about shocking their readers into paying attention to them. Sound familiar?
You write, “…a trap set by the New York Times, whose coverage of transgender issues has been notably poor… “ which is charitable to the point of being wrong. Its coverage of transgender policy is almost universally slanted, so hard in fact that it sinks to the level of intentional misinformation. And that’s its “news” reporting and not opinion. Several of their columnists, including Pamela Paul, David French and Bret Stevens are pretty much anti-trans activists. The “news” organization is essentially an anti-trans hate group in the guise of a paper of record, which means we have the unenviable task of correcting their misinformation on the regular. Eff the NYT.
I really wish I could be a fly on the wall of whatever editor keeps encouraging such slanted reporting. Because what the hell? The NYT newsroom culture just doesn't like trans people and isn't anywhere near examining that bias.
Me too! I understand it’s the executive editor, although the haters need little encouragement to pile on.
I'd love to see Biden's team issue a full-throated statement of affirmation and support- but even if we get something rather more disappointing (or nothing at all), it won't change anything for me. I don't foresee any circumstances under which a protest vote this year could be anything but suicidal, considering what the Republicans are already doing at the state level, let alone what they plan to do with the federal government if they get the chance. So... I'll choke down my grievances and vote for the Democratic party's stale loaf of wonderbread, regardless of what kind of clarification he does or doesn't issue.
The only question is how much bourbon I'll need afterwards to get the taste out of my mouth.
It should be brought up in the next press conference.
This is a decision best made by the patient, the parent and the physician. Hmmm, sound familiar? What is the fascination with Government intruding upon the medical needs of the populace? Unless there's a congressman, Senator, or president with a degree in medicine, then get your big nose out of medicine. You all have proven time and again that you don't know what the f**k you're talking about.
I'm going to say something, up front, that won't be popular: I don't really understand the surgery thing. I don't really see why trans people have to go to that length to be considered legitimately trans (and they don't, of course). But, there are *selected* 16 and 17 year-old individuals who *have* been through the process, sufficiently, to have the surgery, just as they would be at 18 or older. It's wrong to deny them that, just as it's wrong to make the age of consent 18 for sexual activity with adults. It's not that we're recommending every 16 year old have sex with an older person, or cut their dick off, but that they have rights, they are individuals with the conscious level to make decisions. It's wrong to tell them they don't count as adults *in specific circumstances*.
Every trans person's journey can be different. It may take surgeries to eliminate the dysphoria for some and for others merely socially transitioning may be enough to make them happy. Some states have been making proof of surgery a necessity if they are to drive and do other things in their preferred gender. So as a trans person you might not need or want and perhaps you may be a bad candidate for certain surgeries but state governments are forcing us to get surgeries if we desire full and legal acceptance.
This is what I really don't like, when people say they are more accepting of people who cut their dick off, how in the world can they be so insensitive that they'd say something like that? Like a trans woman with a penis is bothering them so she should have a knife taken to it, to make them comfortable? WTF. Trans rights are human rights, and no GAC should be a requirement to qualify. Over my dead body.
I'm trans too and every day I am reminded that my life has been set back by having transitioned so late. I didn't get the support or guidance that I needed at an early enough age. I simply can not see putting another young person through the difficult and unnecessary hurdles that I was forced to endure.
Definitely if Biden is not perfect, I will vote for the guy who will take away ALL our rights and force us all to de-transition.
Or maybe not. Maybe the administration that is doing the most in history for me and my people is due a little understanding and allowance for not being 100% perfect 100% of the time.
We already know the NYT editorial board is 100% fascist MAGAs who are trying to do everything they can to put a pedophile and 34 times convicted felon in the White House. Disregard everything they say. If it doesn't come from the horse's mouth, it comes from the horse's ass.
Got the update email... those cynical fucks did exactly what we were afraid of. They know we have no choice but to vote for their man anyway, with a psychotic Nazi who wants to make our whole existence criminal as an alternative.
Given the debate disaster, and the slant of the Supreme Court in the last week (six of them might as well be wearing MAGA hats) I think we're heading for a Plessy vs Ferguson ruling on trans rights post election. You know, one of those notorious ones that a later court is going to overturn, in shame, but too late for the current generation. Followed by national health care bans, national bathroom bans, national document bans... the full works.
At this point, it may not matter too much what the Biden administration thinks about anything.
Don't forget that there are plenty of under age surgeries going on like breast reduction for girls as young as 12 and thirteen. One of the excuses frequently put fourth is that someone under 18 is too young to consent to a life altering or irreversible procedure. Unless they ban all surgeries the argument against trans surgeries is hypocritical in light of what goes on.