The new guidelines, published by the French Society of Pediatric Endocrinology and Diabetology, create the first French national medical consensus on trans youth care.
It is great to hear that at least somewhere in the world, people are making decisions based on actual science and a desire to care for transgender people in their population.
At long last, some reasonable, humane, and rational guidelines are being put forth, instead of the insanely politicized morass common in much of the US. The French guidelines seem to recognize what is well-known, namely that intervening with treatment for gender dysphoric youth earlier produces better physical and psychological results. Sadly, the issue has been too corrupted by politics and animus in the US for such rationality to take hold.
The problem in the US is that there are so many "alternative" medical associations (often they are hate groups in disguise) that the press gives equal, or extra, time to. The data isn't evaluated by the evidence, it's disputed with emotion and prejudice (often religious) that the press amplifies.
"there are so many "alternative" medical associations"
There is really only ACPeds -- and as I recall Erin has reported before, they are outnumbered by well over 800 to 1 in terms of practicing physician membership -- and -- the ACPeds includes such snakehandling quacks as one whose church they led, tried to resurrect the dead by the power of prayer.
Don't completely rule out the UK. The Netherlands might not have these types of organisations as much, but they are regularly believed much more.
At an anti-trans conference in the Vrije Universiteit in Amsterdam, Hilary Cass spoke.
Just like Mikael Landén, Rittakertu Kaltiala and other notorious anti-trans figures throughout Europe.
A Dutch newspaper cites Sallie Baxendale as trustworthy, while it is easy to look her up and find out her troublesome GenSpect and Sex Matters ties.
The same newspaper (Volkskrant) has been calling SEGM trustworthy as well, and saying that "there are scientists checking all the evidence there is for it's reliability and reputability. The conclusion of these scientists is that there's no evidence to clearly state this treatment is safe."
I was going to post a comment re the SEGM on another forum but didn't because the comment to which it was a response had been deleted. So given the opening, I decided to put it here.
"As for the citation from the so-called Society for Evidence-Based Gender Medicine, you should be embarrassed even to raise it. SEGM is a fringe hate group, not a recognized scientific organization, one that misuses and misstates data to make its bigoted claims.
"According to a statement from the Office of the Dean of the Yale School of Medicine, while SEGM claims to be 'an international group of over 100 clinicians and researchers,' it appears to be nothing more than a website with a 'clinical and academic advisors' group of only 14 people, many of whom have limited (or no) relevant scientific qualifications. None have academic appointments in relevant fields, none have published relevant research in a peer-reviewed publication, and none currently treat patients in a recognized gender clinic.
"It is, the statement concludes, 'an ideological organization without apparent ties to mainstream scientific or professional organizations' whose 14 core members are a 'small group of repeat players in anti-trans activities.'
"If you found them a credible source, you were snookered. If you still find them credible, you're a bigot only interested in confirmation bias. Your call."
I'm sure that the people who are mindlessly regurgitating the Cass review and saying that "Europe" is banning youth gender affirming care will weigh this as Cass's equal and read it closely!
They won't. Not even in the countries close to the UK or actually in the UK.
The Netherlands has had the transphobic Rosanne Hertzberger of the NSC party request lifting patient-doctor confidentiality for transchildren, because nothing says protecting children as much as the state telling them that medical privacy should not exist for them.
And all this because she, as a former microbiologist was going to perform the real, actual scientific, factually accurate research that no other ideologically driven researches would be capable of doing into puberty blockers.
Her motion text included "Countries that have become more conservative in offering this care, like France and Sweden, and the UK".
And it is just not true (well you know, obviously). They U-turned because of ultraconservative fuckwhits who completely managed to seize this debate with their lies and psuedoscience.
But this party member still liked to portray that "a big part of Europe" is banning this care.
No, it will not be treated equal. "THESE ARE THE PEOPLE WHO BENEFIT FROM IT!!!"
"OF COURSE THE PEOPLE OFFERING THIS CARE WILL SAY IT IS NOT BAD!!!"
"LOOK AT WHO CASHES THE CHECK!!!"
To quote just some examples I have heard over the years, some of which also promote antisemitic conspiracy theories.
Of course these people will only believe their ideologic idiots who say this care can't ever be right. It's not about the care, it's about killing transpeople. They do not want transpeople to exist, to identify as trans or even worse, if they manage to survive all hate: live an actual life as a transperson.
Transpeople need to die, and if you can get there by killing off their medical care and turning their lives into an actual living hell, that's much better. You can always claim that that wasn't your desired effect, like Cass basically tried to do...
I hope Erin is sharing these foundings with Chase Strangio, eventhough he probably already has the report findings but this will hopefully help the fight for his clients before the SCOTUS.
While I'm not in the US, I decided to immediately send this news to 4 pro-trans care parties in The Netherlands to keep them informed and up to date.
I am fairly sure 2 of the smallest parties (VOLT! and The Animal Party/Party for the Animals, I consider the second translation more correct) will respond the quickest yet again.
I am French and American... but definitely a french character. We in majority are secularist, therefore science is put in the forefront of medical decisions. Abortion is legal in France since 1975 and it is enshrined in the French Constitution. Religions have no place in science, and certainly no place in government. American evangelist have been given a foot in government and they are hungry for more... America is a constitutional republic not a theocracy.
It certainly WAS a constitutional republic, I hope it manages to fight off and hold back the tide of theocracy. I used to be a Christian person, but now I dream of an age where Christianity just becomes an afterthought in a secularist world. The religious brainwashing so many Americans get put under takes decades to undo, and I only got out because I was forced out for being trans...
Personally, I'm a Christian, and I can't find anything in the Bible against transgender people. Conservative evangelicals are reading their prejudice into their theology, and it's been happening in America for decades. Transphobes have no substantial arguments.
I'm also curious what this will change in The Netherlands. A recent transphobic House member recently resigned from her seat but her motions against care stand.
She left her seat and in the reason for doing so, unfortunately did a "holier than thou" kind of explanation for it. My government is embroiled in institutional racism scandals from day 1 but these reached a boiling point, and ultimately absolute mask-off moment after the riots in Amsterdam in which moslims were accused of Jew-hunting, while it was Jewish Maccabi supporters misbehaving for hours before, with absolutely no action from police, while the retaliatory behavior from muslim people or at least people who sympathize with the group attacked was met with quick, fierce police action.
This is along with the severe crackdown on any pro-Palestine protest (typically prohibited from being held, while big pro-Israel protests are allowed...) that the mayor of Amsterdam has been filing.
Rosanne Hertzberger (the transphobic House member, from the NSC party) quit after a state-secretary from the same party quit a couple of days earlier due to "Uncomfortable language about integration" (this state-secretary later recanted her statement stating it was not due to racism...riiiiight, for someone from Moroccan-Dutch descent to quit her seat due to a massive wave of racism from mostly white cabinet members to be talking about something else than racism...).
Hertzberger released a statement in which she said she quit "because I'm concerned about the unjust language used against minorities".
But it was Hertzberger who wanted to lift patient-doctor confidentiality for transchildren (nothing says "protecting children" more than the state telling these children they do not deserve medical privacy huh?).
This motion was stayed by her: she was convinced there would be an extreme-right minister of Healthcare, Wellbeing and Sports who would happily violate the law for her.
Her motion called for splitting out the information of transchildren based on age, year, birth-sex, diagnosis and cross-examination of this data against waiting lists.
On questions from D66 (another pro-trans party) about what she wanted to do with this motion given the fact you can't compare people on a waiting list with people who got diagnosed, Hertzberger said: "We, we just want numbers, that's what we want."
Which is one of the biggest red flags you can have, if someone can't clearly state the necessity for such a form of government overreach...
It was Hertzberger who called for research into the long-term effects of puberty blockers. As a former microbiologist, she was to fucking stupid to use her research-capabilities to her advantage and check if the research she was advocating for didn't accidentally already ran in my country (which it does...).
This motion was accepted.
For someone who in her biography on the House's website said "I think it's more valuable to return to the idea that the amount of value we deem something to have, instead of relying on hard data."
Apparently the amount of value she deems transchildren's rights and life to have? 0.
But this was not the only problem with Hertzberger: she posted a massively racist column in response to a statue of a woman of color in front of Rotterdam Central Station.
A column dripping with white superiority...
The anti-trans course from the NSC has not been corrected, but this will be a good instrument to hopefully deal this party and some of the other extreme-right and fascist ones a very sensitive blow.
The timing of the release of this report, before the SCOTUS oral arguments and not after, is great. I hope it undercuts the “science” Tennessee is using to prop up their hate.
Thank you for this Erin. I am in the UK and I have just forwarded your report onto my MP, who I am currently lobbying to challenge and oppose the puberty blocker ban that is currently in force here.
I hope the Netherlands does not follow the UK. Last week our health secretary indefinitely banned puberty blockers for trans youth. I’m furious but will use this as fuel for the fire, and so I’m returning to see my MP in the new year armed with reports that refute the Cass report, and highlight the glaring inconsistencies and shoddy methodology the Cass contains. It’s ideology over science and therefore wrong and dangerous.
Some much needed good news, especially after the disastrous elections in the US. It's good to know that at least in many places in the world there are thoughtful, rational, compassionate people. FYI: I'm a big fan of italki (https://www.italki.com/dashboard) if you want to find a French tutor.
A fantastic piece of evidence based research. I can see France becoming a go to destination for British trans youth, it’s a shame that we’ve been fugged over
Good to hear! This can add impetus towards the ongoing denunciation of terf island and red state hate, violence and anti-trans medical care. Perhaps some random cult haters in our blue states will see this? But, I doubt how much it'll matter? They're in a fasc cult and easily duped lemmings!
Good news for a change. Thank you for pulling all of this together. There are many useful points and references here for us to use in our campaigning in the UK
Thank you for explaining these guidelines so clearly. It's delightful to see that France is taking the matter of policy around trans youth care up with experts actually working with those populations and not just politicians trying to fuel a culture war and parents who are angry with their children.
It is great to hear that at least somewhere in the world, people are making decisions based on actual science and a desire to care for transgender people in their population.
At long last, some reasonable, humane, and rational guidelines are being put forth, instead of the insanely politicized morass common in much of the US. The French guidelines seem to recognize what is well-known, namely that intervening with treatment for gender dysphoric youth earlier produces better physical and psychological results. Sadly, the issue has been too corrupted by politics and animus in the US for such rationality to take hold.
The problem in the US is that there are so many "alternative" medical associations (often they are hate groups in disguise) that the press gives equal, or extra, time to. The data isn't evaluated by the evidence, it's disputed with emotion and prejudice (often religious) that the press amplifies.
"there are so many "alternative" medical associations"
There is really only ACPeds -- and as I recall Erin has reported before, they are outnumbered by well over 800 to 1 in terms of practicing physician membership -- and -- the ACPeds includes such snakehandling quacks as one whose church they led, tried to resurrect the dead by the power of prayer.
Don't completely rule out the UK. The Netherlands might not have these types of organisations as much, but they are regularly believed much more.
At an anti-trans conference in the Vrije Universiteit in Amsterdam, Hilary Cass spoke.
Just like Mikael Landén, Rittakertu Kaltiala and other notorious anti-trans figures throughout Europe.
A Dutch newspaper cites Sallie Baxendale as trustworthy, while it is easy to look her up and find out her troublesome GenSpect and Sex Matters ties.
The same newspaper (Volkskrant) has been calling SEGM trustworthy as well, and saying that "there are scientists checking all the evidence there is for it's reliability and reputability. The conclusion of these scientists is that there's no evidence to clearly state this treatment is safe."
I was going to post a comment re the SEGM on another forum but didn't because the comment to which it was a response had been deleted. So given the opening, I decided to put it here.
"As for the citation from the so-called Society for Evidence-Based Gender Medicine, you should be embarrassed even to raise it. SEGM is a fringe hate group, not a recognized scientific organization, one that misuses and misstates data to make its bigoted claims.
"According to a statement from the Office of the Dean of the Yale School of Medicine, while SEGM claims to be 'an international group of over 100 clinicians and researchers,' it appears to be nothing more than a website with a 'clinical and academic advisors' group of only 14 people, many of whom have limited (or no) relevant scientific qualifications. None have academic appointments in relevant fields, none have published relevant research in a peer-reviewed publication, and none currently treat patients in a recognized gender clinic.
"It is, the statement concludes, 'an ideological organization without apparent ties to mainstream scientific or professional organizations' whose 14 core members are a 'small group of repeat players in anti-trans activities.'
"If you found them a credible source, you were snookered. If you still find them credible, you're a bigot only interested in confirmation bias. Your call."
That is beautifully well-written, accurate and concise. I've given it its own browser bookmark, so I can easily refer to it and quote it. TY, Larry.
Well, since it's going to be bookmarked and all, I figured I would give you a link to the source. :-)
The Office of the Dean's statement can be found at https://medicine.yale.edu/lgbtqi/clinicalcare/gender-affirming-care/biased-science/ with the part about the SEGM in the PDF Report at https://files-profile.medicine.yale.edu/documents/98a6e83f-d1ac-4098-b67a-25be370aec2b, starting at page 17.
TYVM! Source links are an excellent thing to have!
I'm sure that the people who are mindlessly regurgitating the Cass review and saying that "Europe" is banning youth gender affirming care will weigh this as Cass's equal and read it closely!
They won't. Not even in the countries close to the UK or actually in the UK.
The Netherlands has had the transphobic Rosanne Hertzberger of the NSC party request lifting patient-doctor confidentiality for transchildren, because nothing says protecting children as much as the state telling them that medical privacy should not exist for them.
And all this because she, as a former microbiologist was going to perform the real, actual scientific, factually accurate research that no other ideologically driven researches would be capable of doing into puberty blockers.
Her motion text included "Countries that have become more conservative in offering this care, like France and Sweden, and the UK".
And it is just not true (well you know, obviously). They U-turned because of ultraconservative fuckwhits who completely managed to seize this debate with their lies and psuedoscience.
But this party member still liked to portray that "a big part of Europe" is banning this care.
No, it will not be treated equal. "THESE ARE THE PEOPLE WHO BENEFIT FROM IT!!!"
"OF COURSE THE PEOPLE OFFERING THIS CARE WILL SAY IT IS NOT BAD!!!"
"LOOK AT WHO CASHES THE CHECK!!!"
To quote just some examples I have heard over the years, some of which also promote antisemitic conspiracy theories.
Of course these people will only believe their ideologic idiots who say this care can't ever be right. It's not about the care, it's about killing transpeople. They do not want transpeople to exist, to identify as trans or even worse, if they manage to survive all hate: live an actual life as a transperson.
Transpeople need to die, and if you can get there by killing off their medical care and turning their lives into an actual living hell, that's much better. You can always claim that that wasn't your desired effect, like Cass basically tried to do...
I’m a microbiologist, so I know Hertzberger is definitely not qualified to lead a study involving direct patient care!
Maybe I should take up learning French.
Thinking the same. Actually know a little French. Been to Paris and it is a gorgeous city.
This....is excellent timing as one of the arguments being made tomorrow is that EU nations are backpedaling on trans care for children.
Not to put too fine a point on it, but
IN YOUR FACE!
Someone pls call Chase Strangio with the good news. ❤️
I hope Erin is sharing these foundings with Chase Strangio, eventhough he probably already has the report findings but this will hopefully help the fight for his clients before the SCOTUS.
While I'm not in the US, I decided to immediately send this news to 4 pro-trans care parties in The Netherlands to keep them informed and up to date.
I am fairly sure 2 of the smallest parties (VOLT! and The Animal Party/Party for the Animals, I consider the second translation more correct) will respond the quickest yet again.
I am French and American... but definitely a french character. We in majority are secularist, therefore science is put in the forefront of medical decisions. Abortion is legal in France since 1975 and it is enshrined in the French Constitution. Religions have no place in science, and certainly no place in government. American evangelist have been given a foot in government and they are hungry for more... America is a constitutional republic not a theocracy.
Thank you Erin for your excellent plume.
It certainly WAS a constitutional republic, I hope it manages to fight off and hold back the tide of theocracy. I used to be a Christian person, but now I dream of an age where Christianity just becomes an afterthought in a secularist world. The religious brainwashing so many Americans get put under takes decades to undo, and I only got out because I was forced out for being trans...
Personally, I'm a Christian, and I can't find anything in the Bible against transgender people. Conservative evangelicals are reading their prejudice into their theology, and it's been happening in America for decades. Transphobes have no substantial arguments.
I'm curious about how this will be accepted by the rest of EU countries and if this will spark reform across Europe.
It will put pressure on the bigots.
Hopefully this will help counter the transphobic missives of the self-appointed "National Gender Service" in Ireland.
I'm also curious what this will change in The Netherlands. A recent transphobic House member recently resigned from her seat but her motions against care stand.
She left her seat and in the reason for doing so, unfortunately did a "holier than thou" kind of explanation for it. My government is embroiled in institutional racism scandals from day 1 but these reached a boiling point, and ultimately absolute mask-off moment after the riots in Amsterdam in which moslims were accused of Jew-hunting, while it was Jewish Maccabi supporters misbehaving for hours before, with absolutely no action from police, while the retaliatory behavior from muslim people or at least people who sympathize with the group attacked was met with quick, fierce police action.
This is along with the severe crackdown on any pro-Palestine protest (typically prohibited from being held, while big pro-Israel protests are allowed...) that the mayor of Amsterdam has been filing.
Rosanne Hertzberger (the transphobic House member, from the NSC party) quit after a state-secretary from the same party quit a couple of days earlier due to "Uncomfortable language about integration" (this state-secretary later recanted her statement stating it was not due to racism...riiiiight, for someone from Moroccan-Dutch descent to quit her seat due to a massive wave of racism from mostly white cabinet members to be talking about something else than racism...).
Hertzberger released a statement in which she said she quit "because I'm concerned about the unjust language used against minorities".
But it was Hertzberger who wanted to lift patient-doctor confidentiality for transchildren (nothing says "protecting children" more than the state telling these children they do not deserve medical privacy huh?).
This motion was stayed by her: she was convinced there would be an extreme-right minister of Healthcare, Wellbeing and Sports who would happily violate the law for her.
Her motion called for splitting out the information of transchildren based on age, year, birth-sex, diagnosis and cross-examination of this data against waiting lists.
On questions from D66 (another pro-trans party) about what she wanted to do with this motion given the fact you can't compare people on a waiting list with people who got diagnosed, Hertzberger said: "We, we just want numbers, that's what we want."
Which is one of the biggest red flags you can have, if someone can't clearly state the necessity for such a form of government overreach...
It was Hertzberger who called for research into the long-term effects of puberty blockers. As a former microbiologist, she was to fucking stupid to use her research-capabilities to her advantage and check if the research she was advocating for didn't accidentally already ran in my country (which it does...).
This motion was accepted.
For someone who in her biography on the House's website said "I think it's more valuable to return to the idea that the amount of value we deem something to have, instead of relying on hard data."
Apparently the amount of value she deems transchildren's rights and life to have? 0.
But this was not the only problem with Hertzberger: she posted a massively racist column in response to a statue of a woman of color in front of Rotterdam Central Station.
A column dripping with white superiority...
The anti-trans course from the NSC has not been corrected, but this will be a good instrument to hopefully deal this party and some of the other extreme-right and fascist ones a very sensitive blow.
The timing of the release of this report, before the SCOTUS oral arguments and not after, is great. I hope it undercuts the “science” Tennessee is using to prop up their hate.
Thank you for this Erin. I am in the UK and I have just forwarded your report onto my MP, who I am currently lobbying to challenge and oppose the puberty blocker ban that is currently in force here.
Mailed it to 5 pro-transcare parties as well here in The Netherlands given the UK-like route The Netherlands is currently on...
I hope the Netherlands does not follow the UK. Last week our health secretary indefinitely banned puberty blockers for trans youth. I’m furious but will use this as fuel for the fire, and so I’m returning to see my MP in the new year armed with reports that refute the Cass report, and highlight the glaring inconsistencies and shoddy methodology the Cass contains. It’s ideology over science and therefore wrong and dangerous.
Some much needed good news, especially after the disastrous elections in the US. It's good to know that at least in many places in the world there are thoughtful, rational, compassionate people. FYI: I'm a big fan of italki (https://www.italki.com/dashboard) if you want to find a French tutor.
Vive les Francaises!
A fantastic piece of evidence based research. I can see France becoming a go to destination for British trans youth, it’s a shame that we’ve been fugged over
Good to hear! This can add impetus towards the ongoing denunciation of terf island and red state hate, violence and anti-trans medical care. Perhaps some random cult haters in our blue states will see this? But, I doubt how much it'll matter? They're in a fasc cult and easily duped lemmings!
This is great news. Sounds like France is really pushing back.
Good news for a change. Thank you for pulling all of this together. There are many useful points and references here for us to use in our campaigning in the UK
Thank you for explaining these guidelines so clearly. It's delightful to see that France is taking the matter of policy around trans youth care up with experts actually working with those populations and not just politicians trying to fuel a culture war and parents who are angry with their children.