This is excellent news. Still, I'm not sure I'm a fan of the "never went through puberty" line of reasoning. I feel like it's probably going to end up causing a million problems for trans people down the line. Believe me, as a late-20's transitioner I wish I had the physical strength Republicans claim I still do.
I added a little more context so that at least readers are more informed on this particular aspect of transition (how 2 years of HRT bring most measures down to cisgender controls: https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/109/2/e455/7223439)
This will continue to be a point of controversy and conflict in the courts, and they need resources which assemble the entire body of evidence (as much as possible) in one place. My forthcoming book is intended to do just that, but it's a lot of work! The difficulty is in encompassing the range of possibilities, along with underlying physiological science, in such a way that opponents can't fasten on a few papers and say "there, it's proven." Any personal inputs are welcome.
I think the strongest evidence that trans women aren't going to take all the medals is simply that we haven't. You can consider all the millions of factors that make someone better at sports and harp about who should be allowed to play and when until the cows return to the barn but the silver bullet should be "hey look, nothings going wrong. way less trans women win at sports than cis women, even by percentage of the population. Maybe just stop worrying about it unless an actual problem presents itself. If it ain't broke, don't fix it"
The problem is simply that in the mindset of those who adamantly oppose, a small number of prominent wins (which those athletes deserved for their effort, of course) "proves" that they are "dominating" ("destroying" is the more frequently used word in social media world) women's sports. They will immediately respond to you by saying "Just give them time; they will."
I agree with you fully that statistics are a critical part of the response: there are simply not enough trans women to "dominate" a sport even if they all were physically superior, and of course they aren't. Cisgender athletes with unusually strong genetics are FAR more likely to deprive any aspiring high school girl of that coveted prize and scholarship. But for the benefit of courts (where this will continue to play out for years, assuming, as now appears likely, that we still have real courts!), one needs all the numbers, and I've found they are widely scattered and buried in journals that are often paywalled for most people. Overcoming that deficit is my goal.
I didn't mean to say that those details don't matter, they will certainly come up and it is important to be able to show that to help people abandon their prejudices, but I hope you'll point out loudly that "give them time, they will" is a hand wave over punishing people for something that they didn't do. A whole bunch of transphobic policy is punishing trans people for stuff that never happened, saying we need to be kept out of this space or that because of a phantom that was never an issue. Trans people never caused harm in bathrooms or locker rooms, trans people aren't a social contagion, and trans people never dominated at sportsball. The hypothetical arguments about what might happen are already a layer of bigotry that shouldn't ever be entertained.
You've got no argument from me! My purpose in my writing is to get to people on school boards (and voters for them), and in state legislature (and voters for those), etc., who are not truly bigoted transfoes, but reflexively respond to trans women in athletics with the arguments we see repeated constantly in the press. You can be sure I'll do my best to get all those points as visible (simultaneously) as possible.
I hope it isn't a vain hope on my part. I do think putting good information in front of those people can make a political difference. It won't change Elon Musk or Matt Walsh, etc., but we could get more decisions like the one we're celebrating now (or, spirit of the universe willing, even prevent the case from coming to court!). There is a *lot* of data available, including on how cisgender women are performing: claims made in the court cases against Lia Thomas and Terry Miller about the vast gap between cis women and cis men are simply wrong in some cases, and simplistic in others. Women (cis) do "dominate" long distance swimming, and increasingly running and bicycling (I'm talking about 100+ mile swims and runs, and 3-4k mile cycling). Some (women, to be sure) sports psychologists have asserted that that "gender gap" is a consequence solely of men excluding them a hundred years ago. It's fascinating stuff, a lot of which I didn't know till I started.
We have a cisgender nearly 16 y/o son and a nearly 14 year old transgender daughter. If anyone were to meet them, they would immediately understand why these rules are ridiculous for kids like ours. My daughter will never, ever have the size or strength of her brother. Never. Forcing her to participate with boys would be a significant DISadvantage for her. Not to mention a serious injury risk to her.
That's one brave kid, honestly - my son left soccer because other boys wouldn't include him (silent bullying), its so hard when adults are doing the bullying too. I am thrilled for Parker, and proud of her for standing proud. I hope she has a ton of fun.
I could not figure out how to edit my previous post. I find myself so happy for this soccer player and her parents. It was not an easy journey to simply play soccer as any teen should be able to do. What a strong teenager and to have supportive parents that have made history and open what was once a closed door in that location. What that family fought for and achieved helps the entire Queer family and allies.
They say "why don't we just let kids be kids?" as if that's somehow an argument for all their culture war bullshit. Well? 𝘛𝘩𝘪𝘴 𝘪𝘴 𝘸𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘭𝘰𝘰𝘬𝘴 𝘭𝘪𝘬𝘦. Let kids be fucking kids, and kick a goddamn stupid ball around if that's what makes them and their friends happy. Good for Parker. It's a shit sandwich that she had to go through all of that just to kick a ball around, but I'm glad she can do that without the fucking chromosome police getting all up in her business. For now.
Hell... we have 𝘨𝘰𝘵 to get it right for these kids, in November. It's the least we owe them. Maybe they can still have what none of us did: a world where they just get to grow up being who they are. There's still time for that, isn't there? At least for some of them?
Thank you for the good news!! Kids just want to fit in, have friends & be happy. Problem is, you’ve got a small group of people who have NO basis for making policies & laws generating a false narrative to support their agenda. Hopefully the general population is starting to see that trans kids & adults are REAL people who deserve to have healthcare, protective laws, access to activities & jobs…just like everyone else. I hope that once all this hateful legislation gets overturned, those responsible for instigating it can get what’s owed to them!
I’d like to think that this is good news, but I’m afraid it will just get overturned by a higher court at some point. Also, does the recent adverse SCOTUS Title decision affect this?
Also, I don’t think the criterion of whether you’ve gone through puberty or not should be used. Medical treatments unquestionably reduce the strength of trans females.
I have ordered US Constitution and it’s Ammendments in booklet form from Amazon for all my Republican family members. In its inside cover I will inscribe the question, “ Does your candidate’s platform align with this document and its amendments?” As more cases are tested against constitutional law, I want my family to understand that freedom isn’t just for those who fit into their cookie cutter mold. Freedom is for all and is guaranteed by these documents.
They will never see it as they have to reinterpret everything in their own biased way. It often follows the lines of religious exceptionalism. I think a much bigger emphasis on civil rights and the constitution needs to be taught in our schools but school curriculums are already being altered state by state, to reflect a backwards view.
I admire their bravery as it surely opens them up to harassment and ridicule. A frequent tactic of opposing school teams is to refuse to play a team with a transgender player.
"[The two girls] have no conceivable athletic advantage or risk of harm to other girls their age" - you're forgetting the Trans Girl Magic. XD
Seriously, though, I'm glad this nonsense about not letting them play soccer with their friends is sorted, at least for the moment. If the conservatives could just stop with the outrage machine for a bit, it would be nice.
This is excellent news. Still, I'm not sure I'm a fan of the "never went through puberty" line of reasoning. I feel like it's probably going to end up causing a million problems for trans people down the line. Believe me, as a late-20's transitioner I wish I had the physical strength Republicans claim I still do.
I added a little more context so that at least readers are more informed on this particular aspect of transition (how 2 years of HRT bring most measures down to cisgender controls: https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/109/2/e455/7223439)
This is the kind of content that is just invaluable, Ms. Reed, you are a champion of this, we appreciate you so much!
I was having the same reaction to that line. I am, however, thrilled for Parker and Iris Turmelle! I hope the ruling stands!
This will continue to be a point of controversy and conflict in the courts, and they need resources which assemble the entire body of evidence (as much as possible) in one place. My forthcoming book is intended to do just that, but it's a lot of work! The difficulty is in encompassing the range of possibilities, along with underlying physiological science, in such a way that opponents can't fasten on a few papers and say "there, it's proven." Any personal inputs are welcome.
I think the strongest evidence that trans women aren't going to take all the medals is simply that we haven't. You can consider all the millions of factors that make someone better at sports and harp about who should be allowed to play and when until the cows return to the barn but the silver bullet should be "hey look, nothings going wrong. way less trans women win at sports than cis women, even by percentage of the population. Maybe just stop worrying about it unless an actual problem presents itself. If it ain't broke, don't fix it"
The problem is simply that in the mindset of those who adamantly oppose, a small number of prominent wins (which those athletes deserved for their effort, of course) "proves" that they are "dominating" ("destroying" is the more frequently used word in social media world) women's sports. They will immediately respond to you by saying "Just give them time; they will."
I agree with you fully that statistics are a critical part of the response: there are simply not enough trans women to "dominate" a sport even if they all were physically superior, and of course they aren't. Cisgender athletes with unusually strong genetics are FAR more likely to deprive any aspiring high school girl of that coveted prize and scholarship. But for the benefit of courts (where this will continue to play out for years, assuming, as now appears likely, that we still have real courts!), one needs all the numbers, and I've found they are widely scattered and buried in journals that are often paywalled for most people. Overcoming that deficit is my goal.
I didn't mean to say that those details don't matter, they will certainly come up and it is important to be able to show that to help people abandon their prejudices, but I hope you'll point out loudly that "give them time, they will" is a hand wave over punishing people for something that they didn't do. A whole bunch of transphobic policy is punishing trans people for stuff that never happened, saying we need to be kept out of this space or that because of a phantom that was never an issue. Trans people never caused harm in bathrooms or locker rooms, trans people aren't a social contagion, and trans people never dominated at sportsball. The hypothetical arguments about what might happen are already a layer of bigotry that shouldn't ever be entertained.
You've got no argument from me! My purpose in my writing is to get to people on school boards (and voters for them), and in state legislature (and voters for those), etc., who are not truly bigoted transfoes, but reflexively respond to trans women in athletics with the arguments we see repeated constantly in the press. You can be sure I'll do my best to get all those points as visible (simultaneously) as possible.
I hope it isn't a vain hope on my part. I do think putting good information in front of those people can make a political difference. It won't change Elon Musk or Matt Walsh, etc., but we could get more decisions like the one we're celebrating now (or, spirit of the universe willing, even prevent the case from coming to court!). There is a *lot* of data available, including on how cisgender women are performing: claims made in the court cases against Lia Thomas and Terry Miller about the vast gap between cis women and cis men are simply wrong in some cases, and simplistic in others. Women (cis) do "dominate" long distance swimming, and increasingly running and bicycling (I'm talking about 100+ mile swims and runs, and 3-4k mile cycling). Some (women, to be sure) sports psychologists have asserted that that "gender gap" is a consequence solely of men excluding them a hundred years ago. It's fascinating stuff, a lot of which I didn't know till I started.
We have a cisgender nearly 16 y/o son and a nearly 14 year old transgender daughter. If anyone were to meet them, they would immediately understand why these rules are ridiculous for kids like ours. My daughter will never, ever have the size or strength of her brother. Never. Forcing her to participate with boys would be a significant DISadvantage for her. Not to mention a serious injury risk to her.
What a gift reading this post is. Erin thanks for the post and making my day.
Goal!!!
That's one brave kid, honestly - my son left soccer because other boys wouldn't include him (silent bullying), its so hard when adults are doing the bullying too. I am thrilled for Parker, and proud of her for standing proud. I hope she has a ton of fun.
I could not figure out how to edit my previous post. I find myself so happy for this soccer player and her parents. It was not an easy journey to simply play soccer as any teen should be able to do. What a strong teenager and to have supportive parents that have made history and open what was once a closed door in that location. What that family fought for and achieved helps the entire Queer family and allies.
They say "why don't we just let kids be kids?" as if that's somehow an argument for all their culture war bullshit. Well? 𝘛𝘩𝘪𝘴 𝘪𝘴 𝘸𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘭𝘰𝘰𝘬𝘴 𝘭𝘪𝘬𝘦. Let kids be fucking kids, and kick a goddamn stupid ball around if that's what makes them and their friends happy. Good for Parker. It's a shit sandwich that she had to go through all of that just to kick a ball around, but I'm glad she can do that without the fucking chromosome police getting all up in her business. For now.
Hell... we have 𝘨𝘰𝘵 to get it right for these kids, in November. It's the least we owe them. Maybe they can still have what none of us did: a world where they just get to grow up being who they are. There's still time for that, isn't there? At least for some of them?
It warms this old gal's heart to think of her dancing at her warm ups tonight with her teammates.
Thank you for the good news!! Kids just want to fit in, have friends & be happy. Problem is, you’ve got a small group of people who have NO basis for making policies & laws generating a false narrative to support their agenda. Hopefully the general population is starting to see that trans kids & adults are REAL people who deserve to have healthcare, protective laws, access to activities & jobs…just like everyone else. I hope that once all this hateful legislation gets overturned, those responsible for instigating it can get what’s owed to them!
I’d like to think that this is good news, but I’m afraid it will just get overturned by a higher court at some point. Also, does the recent adverse SCOTUS Title decision affect this?
Also, I don’t think the criterion of whether you’ve gone through puberty or not should be used. Medical treatments unquestionably reduce the strength of trans females.
I have ordered US Constitution and it’s Ammendments in booklet form from Amazon for all my Republican family members. In its inside cover I will inscribe the question, “ Does your candidate’s platform align with this document and its amendments?” As more cases are tested against constitutional law, I want my family to understand that freedom isn’t just for those who fit into their cookie cutter mold. Freedom is for all and is guaranteed by these documents.
Forget the legislators, you need to give the US constitution (and its amendments) to the SCOTUS justices as well as ones on the Fifth Circuit!
I agree heartily.
They will never see it as they have to reinterpret everything in their own biased way. It often follows the lines of religious exceptionalism. I think a much bigger emphasis on civil rights and the constitution needs to be taught in our schools but school curriculums are already being altered state by state, to reflect a backwards view.
I feel so proud of these girls for fighting this and grateful to the NH ACLU 🙂
I admire their bravery as it surely opens them up to harassment and ridicule. A frequent tactic of opposing school teams is to refuse to play a team with a transgender player.
"This provision has been interpreted to potentially require genital inspections. "
Can these perverts just get out of our pants?
The Christian Reich wing will *never* stop being *weird*.
A bunch of creeps indeed. They are weirdos who provenly abuse children for their sick gratification.
"Dance with joy" - what we wish for every young athlete. Every. One.
That’s my little cousin
"[The two girls] have no conceivable athletic advantage or risk of harm to other girls their age" - you're forgetting the Trans Girl Magic. XD
Seriously, though, I'm glad this nonsense about not letting them play soccer with their friends is sorted, at least for the moment. If the conservatives could just stop with the outrage machine for a bit, it would be nice.